Warning:

This post contains extreme profanities. If such language is offensive do not read.

All quotes come from usenet alt.atheism and are of public record.


Kelsey Bjarnason:
 
"What the hell would we need "spiritual values" for when we can have real values instead?"

 
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
 
V:
 
 
Hi and thank you for your reply Kelsey.
 
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the wind is hard to define.
 
Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly?
 
If we could do that they would not be spiritual studies.
 
You can't see why one person is loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate and destruction.
 
Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into a kind and loving human.
 
We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the change possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all exactly.
 
Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an imperfect process in this life. 
 
But just as we can see the effects of the wind and gravity, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any spiritual values.
 
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it some thought if we wish to be at peace.
 
A Hindu sage once told me "Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires."
 
As such without effort, the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by.
 
Lets look at some of the 'real values' that atheists develop once they drop spirituality from the equation Kelsey.
 
As you can see below, the defiance based, mind manacled, spiritually sick atheist can go out of their way to be very cruel.
 
The Buddhists follow the eightfold path of right living and one of these paths encompasses right speech.
 
One time I brought up this subject of right speech at alt.atheism and was responded to as such.
 
Robibnikoff wrote:   "So. Fucking what...do you think I give a flying fuck what you think, dipshit...Not that it's any of YOUR fucking business...Don't presume that you know what's best for me, you deluded, motherfucking, cocksucking son of a whore." (condensed)
 
 
With my first few posts, I offered to discuss tools that the atheist, agnostic or theist can all share to develop inner peace.
 
These are just a few of the responses at alt.atheism on the topics of developing compassion, simplicity, ethics, morals, mindfulness, reciprocity, philosophical studies, charity, accepting impermanence, and developing gratitude.
 

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Christopher A. Lee wrote:   "So fucking what? Keep it to yourself and nobody will know what an asshole you are."
 
Kate wrote:   "I've never been not at peace.  What you offer makes me physically ill.  It's like a nasty man come round to tell little kiddees he has candy for them if they touch his pee pee. You know, most of the atheists I know are as good as children are at discerning misrepresentation.  You aren't trying to help anyone but your own self.  Go away, we have no interest in touching your pee pee."
 
Christopher A. Lee wrote:   "What the fuck has philosophy got to do with your in-your-face psychopathy?"
 
Michael Gray wrote:   "Stop posting your vile polemic deliberately nasty, lying Christian? . Please go away. No-one is buying your poisonous diatribe. Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?"
 
John Baker wrote:   "First of all, this is a newsgroup, not the freaking public library. Keep it short and to the point. Second, you're full of shit."
 
Christopher A. Lee wrote:  "We know this deliberately nasty, slandering liar is a Christian by his fruits...a liar as well as an idiot...don't be so fucking stupid."
 
Christopher A. Lee wrote:   "You wouldn't know "virtuous behaviour" if it hit you over the head, whining hypocrite who needs to get the log out of his own eye before accusing us of a projection of his own deficiencies."
 
Christopher A. Lee wrote:  "a few hundred lines of irrelevant bullshit by a whining hypocrite who
doesn't practice what he preaches, deleted"
 
Robibnikoff wrote:    "Shaddup, you dick."
 
Michael Gray wrote:    "There ain't nothin' lamer than a jabriol fuckwit"
 
Christopher A. Lee wrote:   "Whi give a shit, in-your-face stuipid moron?"
 
John Baker wrote:    'I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a disgusting piece of shit."
 
Robibnikoff  wrote:    "I hope that stupid fucker (V) doesn't think I actually read all that dog shit he posts."
 
Robibnikoff wrote:   "....no one gives a shit what you think."
 
Stoney wrote:     "Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate at a high rate of speed.  I trust you'll be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters."
 
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I could send you an almost endless supply of such material to prove the point that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk.
 
The conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick atheist is this.
 
They need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their own defiance blocks them from seeking and finding these values.
 
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find peace.
 
If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with many spiritually sick example members and their projection of this spiritual sickness and self hate onto others
 

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Robibnikoff wrote:  "Blah, blah, blah... you boring sack of shit."
 
Mark K Bilbo wrote:    "..you're an asshole...a self-absorbed prick who thinks everything is about him."
 
Mark K Bilbo wrote:   "For a "peace" freak, you sure are a spiteful little fuck."
 
Panama Floyd wrote:   "...this guy is funny. Why don't we wait a while before we eat him? Maybe he'll poopie himself!."
 
John Baker wrote:  "Oh, shut the fuck up, you self-righteous twit."
 
Robibnikoff wrote:  "Fuck you, liar"

Robibnikoff wrote:   "You must be an arrogant douche bag.(V)"

Jesus Was A Cocksucker  wrote: "Never,scumbag cocksucker for christ. your a god damn idiot-every post you make proves it."

Michael Gray wrote:   "You exhibit all the signs of full clinical sociopathy, if not actual psychopathy. You need professional help, but won't take it, as that would entail admitting that the Fuckups that are always happening to you are YOUR fault."
 
Michael Gray wrote:   "If you insist upon continuing to strut your massive ego and miniscule education in alt.atheism, we'll use you for target practice, until we get bored with your repetitious long-winded empty-headed bullshit-frosted ignorance."
 
Michael Gray wrote:   "What do you expect from a lying sack of shit?"
 
Raven wrote:    "God, will you get over that fucking ego of yours already?"
 
Mark K Bilbo wrote:    "what you write is self-absorbed, condescending, arrogant rife, ego masturbation. You're in love with yourself, don't care what other people think or feel, and have the emotional maturity of a two year old."

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All atheists are not like this.
 
Some spiritual based atheist far surpass theists in compassion and inner peace.
 
The troubling thing at alt.atheism is no one speaks out against such illness and this IS being promoted as atheistic view.
 
I wrote to the president of American Atheists, I wrote to the UK Atheists as well s a Secular Humanist Foundation and Sam Harris about this very topic...none had the courtesy to respond.
 
Atheists are their own worse enemy when it comes to promoting their cause and trampling over organized religion.
 
Just as the bible is a major force with theists leaving religion, the spiritually sick, mind manacled, defiance based atheist is the best reason that theists return to their religion.
 
Such wavering theists quickly come to realize that without a foundation spirituality the atheist is sunk and rapidly head back to their church, temple or fellowship to get away from such people.
 
I brought up the topic of developing a 'church of sorts' or atheist fellowship to lend guidance and support for right living and reinforcing the ethics morals and the ideals of atheists and secular humanism.
 
I'll leave you with just a few more quotes from Panama Floyd as he writes on the subject of developing human empathy and compassion to support moral, ethical and right living through such a fellowship:
 

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Panama Floyd wrote:   "The only thing I need to "support moral, ethical and right living" is simple human empathy and compassion. That anyone would need anything else is a mystery to me. Perhaps I'm just a better person than they are (V)."
 
Panama Floyd wrote:   "Then don't whine like a bitch when your butt gets fucked,"
 
Panama Floyd wrote::   "...Take it (bible) and shove it up that smelly little anus you're using for a cunt."
 
Panama Floyd wrote:   "You're not smart enough, or brave enough to be an atheist. Keep your idiotic dead-jew-on-a-stick, buttsuck. Fear of it is probably the only thing keeping you from having sex with your siblings."
 
Panama Floyd wrote:   "Shaddap, bitch. If I want your opinion, I'll give you one."
 
Panama Floyd wrote::   "Go fuck yourself, Christian...Were I a violent man, I'd advocate you all being rounded up and jailed, to keep you from ruining other lives."
 
Panama Floyd wrote:   "Go fuck yourself, shitstain. You come in here and insult people-and then whine about the reception you get? Fuck, I wish it caused you physical pain to be so ruthlessly stupid."
 
Panama Floyd wrote:   "FUCK OFF ya brainless fucking twat!"
 
Panama Floyd wrote:  "Fuck Jesus. Your dead-jew-on-a-stick probably never existed, and if he did, he was man-not a god. I don't take "commands" from an illiterate, superstitious Bronze Age peasant.'
 
Panama Floyd: wrote:   "What are *you* doing back here, you dumb bitch-assed punk? Ways of disposing with the human garbage called "missionaries" is very definately on-topic."
 
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When you practice peace promotion with others you will reap inner peace promotion...as you give so your receive.
 
When you practice destroying others peace, you will reap self destruction of inner peace...as you give so your receive
 
This is universal truth once the prejudice of ego is stripped away.
 
Whether atheists, theists or Buddhists, I submit that you all drop the pretense and lies that you have been grasping onto for entire life and rebuild your life through a foundation of truth and testing and regenerate yourselves into a truth based agnostic freethinker striving to be at peace within and with all.

No, Kelsey, I stand by my statement 100% that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk.
 
Words give a glimpse of what our insides are like. Whenever we beat down others to boost our ego we will never find the peace that we are desperately seeking.
 
Destroying others to glorify our ego is not the answer my friends.
 
And until you change, you will continue on your mockery of a life that can best be described as the tragedy upon humanity that manifests itself as the defiance, based, mind manacled, spiritually sick atheist.
 
Also see:
 
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0


 

Good luck,
 
 
V (Male)
 
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2

I agree with you , wholeheartedly, many Atheists could show religious people a thing or two. We need to do something about it, not just read about it like some folks and allow terrible things to take place on earth and thank god for it, God would want people to do something about it, or he wouldn't have put us here in my system of spirituality. l

Yeah... Its a shame... Atheism - or agnosticism, for that matter, should be the result of an intelligent individuation process, not a hate parade.

No wonder so many Christians have such a deluded notion of atheists being full of hate. Some of them obviously are, and thus are no better than most religious fundies...

Instead of constantly using dirty language (and I sometimes do when provoked), we should try to project a better image, so that the theists can see that one can be "a good person" even without spiritual mumbo-jumbo...

that's what i have been doing, but cursing just tends to get me even more frustrated and cause more hatred and useless bickering. i get my cursing out to my music most days. so i don't need to here. but xtians usually have the worst language in the U.S.

Here is my first reply to a thread.

I was glad to see this topic.  I get tired of the discussions I've had with Christians, but sometimes the discussions with extreme atheists are just as tiring.  I get annoyed when someone is too sure of themselves and isn't willing to consider another's perspective even if only out of respect.  I feel there is a balance between being right and being kind.

I have a strong sense of spiritual values and I don't see this in conflict with rationality.  I don't see subjective experience as a weakness that must be overcome with the objectivity of logical analysis.  I find either/or thinking rather simpleminded whether it comes form a theist or an atheist.

I too become tired when correspondets attemtop to thrust their views down my throat without respect-that dreaded modern term! but,then,this cuts both ways.
       Why do believers not respect my non-belief?All my life I have been bombarded with their insiduous and not-so-insiduous preachign.Being addressed in hospital by some dog-collared.deluded Irishman,as my SOn.I found it offensive and patronising,the hours of Religious KNowledge in the school curriculum and the punsihments that ensued if one dodged it.I could go on and on.
      I really do not understand why the religious have to proselytise and spread the word.In my eyes they are no better than second-hand car salesmen-pace,all car salesmen!The man of god will often refer to the terrible things that happen when atheists are in charge,citing Stalin,Mao,Pol Pot and others.I was not aware that the leaders of the European nations that went to war in 1914 were atheists.The Germans displayed on their belt buckles Gott mit uns.All prayed for victory an slaughtered one another with glee-so much for "Faith".Also Buddhism is not a faith it is a way of life.There is no god in Buddhism

Spiritual values are necessary, because real ones are foul, perverse, corrupt, and ephemerous.
Thus Jesus is docetic, not real as charlatans like Holding try to trick you into believing.

Klaus Schilling

Funny my brother was in a Catholic Hospital a while back, the nuns would come in, he'd say no thanks I'm not Christian, and their response was 'oh well would you like to talk anyway?' (pre-surgery). So I guess it just goes to show that it depends on the person you're dealing with.

I'm of the live-and-let-live approach to life. If you want to go to church on Sunday and pray, fine, but leave me alone. I'm thinking of putting a concrete Buddha out on my front door to try and warn them off (they're demonic you know). However I feel that they have the right to their beliefs. It's when these beliefs start leaking over into public forums that I start worrying. Things like teaching Creationism in school, home schooling (I think children should learn scientific reasoning even if they decide to reject it when their older). When they axe NASA's budget (because they might find something scary?) and other Scientific funding. But there are many Christians out there that go about their day without saying anything about their religion to others, and they are entitled to their beliefs. Unfortunately, they get lumped in with the Jerry Falwell Gang, like all Atheists are lumped in with the group mentioned above.

I'm not sure what the Buddhism comment was about, however I've met as many Atheists who accuse me of worshiping a false god as I have met Christians. And both are close minded to hearing the truth. They tell me that I worship Buddha, they tell me that I believe in reincarnation, they tell me what I am, and if I try to correct them then I am either wrong, or not a 'real Buddhist'. I'm also not a 'real atheist' since I am a Buddhist, but that's another point.

I have two statues of Buddha in my house, one is a replica of the Buddha in Koyoto, because I want to go to Koyoto(it's where Dogen is from), and I think it's a cool statue. Then I have the 'chubby-Buddha' to remind me not to take things so seriously. The closest to worshiping them I've done, is patting one on the head and saying thanks when my BAC sister left my home because she was afraid of them. So yeah, I guess they do ward off obnoxious demons.